Harmonia Philosophica: Atheists as the worst dogmatists.

Tuesday, March 25, 2014

Atheists as the worst dogmatists.

Atheists often want to pose as "free thinkers". But they are anything but.

A quick look at the Dawkins' site will prove that to you.

Take a look at how these people react to the opinions of theists/ religious people [source]:

Question of the Week: A World Without Religion

by RDFRS posted on March 18, 2014 04:40PM GMT

What would happen if religious belief were to completely stop overnight?

Deadline for the contest is March 25, 2014

Winners receive a copy of An Appetite for Wonder by Richard Dawkins.

Please Login to richarddawkins.net to comment

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146 Comments

Terra

By 12:01am someone would have a "miraculous revelation"...

18-Mar-2014 17:01 PM

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Timothy McNamara

The masses previously attached to the vanished religions, would sadly know nothing better to replace their blanket with. Copying parents, rather than the "father" from the middle-eastern paper-blog would ensue. A lot less people would have their genitals mutilated, their children molested, their sundays wasted.

Human shortcomings and violence, however, can hardly be linked firmly to the scenario. A difference might be that violent agressions in overcrowded, undernourished sectors of the overpopulated globe, wouldn't get a "calling card". There'd be no mention of a god, nor prophet, subsequent to the bombing of the area another group saw fit to murder.

Some problems would vanish, but many would continue, just without the jerseys. The biggest likely positive outcome from the scenario would be the removal of impediments to learning, and education. Gender-parity would also have a field-day, should the scenario occur. Good would come from removal of the scriptural backing of many things. Not least the ownership of at least one uterus and its cycle, by the males of the species that overran this globe.

Religious belief "stopping overnight" would be a great start, if one saw fit a halting of one type of ape causing it's own extinction through unsustainable population growth and habitat destruction.

18-Mar-2014 17:23 PM

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Bob Springsteen

I'd hate to see the end of religion, because I love arguing with believers too much.

18-Mar-2014 21:15 PM

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Nitya

I suspect that even if organised religion were to disappear completely, one or many ratbag notions would immediately spring forth to fill the void. There will always be gullible minds out there, ready to be filled with superstitious nonsense. I think the tendency to see agency is hardwired into our brains, ( some more than others), and some sky fairy or other is going to pop up in order to put women in their place, tell us what to wear, what to eat and generally regulate the lives of believers.

18-Mar-2014 21:47 PM

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CdnMacAtheist

Without religions, other pseudoscience scams would have a field day rampaging among the gullible & fearful masses, but overall I think it would be worth it.... Mac.

18-Mar-2014 23:20 PM

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aldous

As the (apocryphal) saying of G.K. Chesterton puts it, " When people stop believing in God, they don't believe in nothing, they'll believe anything." There are hordes of spiritual entrepreneurs pushing 'quantum mysticism', 'faith healing', the 'law of attraction' and all sorts of new agey stuff. Watkins Bookshop has an annual list of the top hundred spiritual leaders .

18-Mar-2014 23:47 PM

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adey5

In reply to #1 by Terra:

By 12:01am someone would have a "miraculous revelation"...

And by 12.02 be using it to trick someone else with it.

19-Mar-2014 01:47 AM

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adey5

Palestine/Israel issue would be a LOT easier to sort out.

19-Mar-2014 01:48 AM

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aquilacane

A lot of happy people a lot of sad people, a bunch of suicides. Mostly, no one would know what to do with the time and brain space they spent on religion. Take away any part of a persons routine and you have a chance for anxiety, perhaps even depression. I would cheer, first.

Second, I would be on the lookout for all of the people who thought religion was the only thing keeping us from being murdering, rapist, pyromaniac, drug addicted, car thieves because they will be in the streets murdering, raping, burning, snorting and stealing cars, naturally. They must feel it in their bones to know that is what religion is keeping them from doing. Personally, I think they have it the wrong way around.

19-Mar-2014 01:58 AM

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Ted Foureagles

Religion is a symptom; faith is the problem. If religious belief disappeared overnight it would be immediately recreated by those who imagine that they know what they don't, for those who have no tolerance of ambiguity.

19-Mar-2014 02:55 AM

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Net

In reply to #2 by Timothy McNamara:

The masses previously attached to the vanished religions, would sadly know nothing better to replace their blanket with. Copying parents, rather than the "father" from the middle-eastern paper-blog would ensue. A lot less people would have their genitals mutilated, their children molested, their sun...

i don't think child molestation is caused by religion. i think there have always been child molesters, and that religion just provides them with a cover. the question is, what would child molesters do for cover? join the scouts? run secular orphanages? become early childhood teachers?

19-Mar-2014 08:42 AM

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bluebird

In reply to #4 by Nitya:

spring forth to fill the void

"nature abhors a vacuum"

19-Mar-2014 11:08 AM

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Bob Springsteen

Even if the nonexistence of God could be proven, this would not affect the faith of fundies. They would simply put the blame on the Devil and quote scripture: And Satan was thrown down to the earth, the deceiver of the whole world (Revelation 12:9).

19-Mar-2014 12:59 PM

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Stafford Gordon

In the sure and certain knowledge that there's a sucker born every minute, new nonsense would be made up by some charlatan.

19-Mar-2014 13:54 PM

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peter_ga

We would instantly have peace in the Middle East and in many other parts of the world. Women in Muslem countries would have access to higher education, think more about themselves and decide if and when they want to have children and, as a consequence, we would solve the problem of overpopulation on our planet. Italy would get out of the recession, since the Vatican will be obliged to pay taxes like all other enterprises. No more witch hunting and gay discrimination in Africa. No more children abuse by clerics. The problem of AIDS in Africa will disappear. Less wars around the world will mean more money to improve the life of billions of people. And we could go on and on, because the the list is endless.

19-Mar-2014 14:16 PM

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Aureliano Buendia

Firstly, it's impossible. But, If religious belief were completely stop and it will never be returned, I presume we would be dedicated to the science, love.. and the other unreserved beautiful stuff.

19-Mar-2014 14:21 PM

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davidnc

If religious 'belief' were to stop overnight, the religious 'mind' would be set free. That is the beginning. Freedom to observe and to not seek.acquire, own or control. Freedom to "be" without motive, judgement, prejudice, or consequence. There would no longer be the need to "believe in" religion, myth, stories and I-L-L-U-S-I-O-N. The mind would be free to not adhere to any dogma, ritual or dictate. Negation would replace attachment. Humankind would have no cause to feel separate…from all or any other beings…neither superior or exceptional. Indeed, there would not be anything more extraordinary than each breath - nothing ordinary - "AWE-dinary". We would lose our dependency on competition, confirmation, affirmation, assertion, applause, proof and the passion to be "right". The Conscious mind alone knows Love and Compassion, realizing a timeless, momentary Presence - Bliss.

I read in these comments the 'other side' of the religion mythology, (if only 'they could see what I see') the defeat, diminishment, deflation and degradation that goes along with the defiant mind, aware that something is out of place, filling the gap with cynicism, regret, anger and hopelessness. That is not sad, it is simply another expression of the polarity of belief cloaked in supra-intellectual, oppositional arrogance. It is fine and, too, based in fear, loss, 'if only' and longing. Stuck in time, most will continue to fight (another illusion), go up against, go 'toe to toe', be more rational than those who, on the other side, also struggle with what it means to believe. No difference between "enemies". All have to give up the attempt to exploit 'what is'. Relinquish content. Experience the transformation of yourself within yourself.

19-Mar-2014 14:45 PM

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Mr DArcy

The Pope and the Archbishop of Canterbury would have to claim unemployment benefit. The mad mullahs and imams would take up vegetable gardening and embroidery, and the Buddhist monks would be spinning water wheels instead of prayer wheels. The rabbis would move into the Hollywood film business.

19-Mar-2014 15:33 PM

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bronze

Humans would need to invent some other bullshit that enabled them to cheat death. However should someone invent a pill that meant humans could live forever ,then Religions all over the world would simply disappear

19-Mar-2014 15:42 PM

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Red Dog

In reply to #21 by bronze:

It's a common assumption -- that the main goal about religion is to make us not worry about death -- but like a lot of common wisdom it may not stand up to a serious examination. If you think about it the actual "comfort" people get from most religious myths isn't all that great. Does worrying about the possibility of an eternity of torture really make you feel better about death? And while "Heaven" is a big deal in Christianity (and I think Islam) It's not at all a common belief in all religions. Judaism for example has almost no concept of heaven and even more so most tribal religions studied by anthropologists don't have such a concept. For example, in the book Religion Explained anthropologist Pascal Boyer gives an overview of religion as practiced through all of recorded history and he emphasized that "feeling good about the afterlife" did not seem to be a common function of religion.

19-Mar-2014 15:54 PM

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Richard01

Imagination is one the most valued 'things' in human experience and one of the strongest drivers of behaviour. An example would be an author writing a popular novel, ie putting his/her imagination on paper, selling that for millions of dollars to people who do not even imagine the same things as the author when reading it. Another would be a musician who produces sounds that stimulate the imagination of millions of fans who happily pay. Major Brands are build around an imaginary persona or brand image that has imaginary attributes carefully chosen by marketeers to encourage people to associate themselves with the product or service and to spend money on it and result in very high VALUES of such intangible assets. Of course religious organisations, evangelists etc are absolute masters at this.

In countries where religion has faded to low levels, Scandanavia, Holland, Uk etc low religiousity seem to correlate with relatively high standards of living. Sport eg football and other pastimes may provide substitutes for religious imagination as those populations live well above Maslow's basic needs level. Societies that live at the level of basic needs have a higher need for some imaginary helper to lift them out of their poverty. So, to the question....the sudden loss of religious belief would I think be rapidly replaced by an elevation of charismatic leaders to god like status eg Mandela, Ghandi, Kim Yong Eel (korea) where imagination would attribute a variety of godly attributes to them.

19-Mar-2014 16:03 PM

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4as4is4

I propose that the changes felt in Afghanistan, Somalia, Uganda would be wonderful to witness. I don't envisage a wave of "Actually, they're not such bad people after all" breaking out in Jerusalem, because that's a turf war. so let's not be rash and predict instantaneous global peace.

Sigh It can only ever be a hypothetical question. So just this side of nonsense...

19-Mar-2014 16:44 PM

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Bob Springsteen

The birthrate among European Muslims is three times that of their non-Muslm neighbours. If religious belief is still around in 30 years, European non-Muslims will either be living in subjugation to a Muslim caliphate, or be put to death for their unbelief.

19-Mar-2014 16:54 PM

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Red Dog

In reply to #25 by Bob Springsteen:

I'm not sure where you got that "fact" about Muslim birthrate although I have a sneaking suspicion you pulled it out of the same orifice where you get most of the stuff you post. But if you are interested in actual data:

"By 2030, Muslims are expected to make up 8% of Europe’s population. Although Europe’s Muslim population is growing, Europe’s share of the global Muslim population will remain quite small. Less than 3% of the world’s Muslims are expected to be living in Europe in 2030, about the same portion as in 2010 (2.7%)."

Pew Research on religion and public policy

19-Mar-2014 17:01 PM

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bronze

*In reply to #22 by Red Dog:

In reply to #21 by bronze:"feeling good about the afterlife" did not seem to be a common function of religion. It is where I live.

It's a common assumption -- that the main goal about rel...

19-Mar-2014 17:01 PM

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iamchrismoran

It would be terrible. suddenly all of the religious people who make statements like "Why be good? Why not kill, or cheat, or steal, or rape if not for God's wish for us not to?" would possibly lose their reasons to not bring out their worst. I'd have thought it hyperbole, if I hadn't had believers actually say those exact words to me numerous times.

The moral of the population would then always need to be watching over their shoulders and worrying. Or they could not worry and just take it as it is and accept that now some bad people will have nothing keeping them from DOING bad things.

But, then people would HAVE to start questioning things and relying on evidence and unlearning all the silly myths they have lived by. A large chunk of the American "bible belt" might literally lose their minds with the shift in reality.

Churches would begin to be converted into useful spaces for true community use, such as learning centers, art centers, performance centers, shelters or torn down and the land could be converted into living space.

And millions of Gedeon Family donated "hotel" bibles would find their way into recycle centers . . . or used as kindling.

19-Mar-2014 18:23 PM

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hanhtran

The world will be in chaos for awhile.

There will be many "drunken men" suddenly wake up to reality and the truth; And withdrawal symptom- despaired, confused and dis-orientated will kick in.

Religion is a big business in selling "sins" and " after life" . And "astute businessmen" will start to look for a new "product ' to fill the vacuum ....... ................................................................................................. Resist religions' involvement in early child education , and teaching the youngs how to think critically may be a better way to get ride of the problem.

19-Mar-2014 18:34 PM

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hanhtran

In reply to #6 by aldous:

education is the key- teaching the youngs how to think critically.

19-Mar-2014 18:41 PM

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Red Dog

In reply to #28 by iamchrismoran:

It will happen eventually and my guess is sooner than most people expect. And no, people won't suddenly all go crazy without religion. I realize that some people claim they have no reason to be moral without religion but if you can learn anything from the social sciences it is that people are terrible at reporting their own goals, intentions, and motivations. So they may say they are are moral because God watches over them but I am very confidant that if you actually looked at what they do and why they do it you would find two things.

First, that they often aren't moral and they clearly violate prescriptions from Jesus or whoever for reasons of expedience and in those times they have all sorts of ways to rationalize their God away and second when they are moral there are far more tangible reasons for their morality such as fear of getting caught and fear of the opinions of friends and families.

I think it's interesting that the most avid haters of religion are the ones who make it out to be far more important than it really is. It reminds of a similar phenomena in politics on both the extreme right and left, those who are most adamant about viewing the government as the source of all evil are also the ones who over estimate it's effectiveness and competence.

19-Mar-2014 18:45 PM

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Bob Springsteen

In reply to NUMBER 26 by Red Dog. The Muslim birthrate in Europe : I got my fact from the orifice of Sam Harris (Letter to a Christian Nation, Page 83). By the way, don't forget I once had to put you right about the New Testament and Koranic teachings on hell and the devil. See the thread entitled Are you scared of Hell? My name should tell you, I am the Boss!!

19-Mar-2014 18:48 PM

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Steven007

And who created your Creator? Michaelangelo? Rodin? Seth McFarlane?

In reply to #33 by 1Mantraman:

Abrahamics/Westerners get a life, the Creator created every thing, that includes Creationism/Evolution. Time we learned to get along ! Clarificationn may be provided for a small consideration.

19-Mar-2014 21:06 PM

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Mr DArcy

1Mantraman:

Abrahamics/Westerners get a life, the Creator created every thing, that includes Creationism/Evolution. Time we learned to get along ! Clarificationn may be provided for a small consideration.

Of course ! The tithe comes in and the tithe comes in !

19-Mar-2014 21:09 PM

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Steven007

So sorry, didn't mean to trouble you with a simple question (aren't they all simple with your Neverending Story (Bible) to guide you?) Questions require answers, or at least investigation, exploration and/or curiosity and I do realize it's in short supply with you and your friendly parishioners. But...perhaps DaVinci? Houdini? Help me out, I'm grasping at straws here...

In reply to #36 by 1Mantraman:

Must not be rude to the dummy suckers. In reply to #34 by Steven007:

And who created your Creator? Michaelangelo? Rodin? Seth McFarlane?

In reply to #33 by 1Mantraman:

Abrahamics/Westerners get a life, the Creator created every thing, that includes Creationism/Evolution. Time we learned to get al...

19-Mar-2014 21:16 PM

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rzzz

That would be the consequence of Homo sapiens suddenly going extinct. So nothing much would 'happen' in human terms - the natural world would just keep doing its thing, as it has done for billions of years.

By your question do you mean to ask' is the end of religious belief possible?'. Then the answer is no, not while there are people who compulsively imagine a supernatural parent who cares about them. Of course your definition of 'religious' is relevant to this.

19-Mar-2014 22:08 PM

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david.graf.589

Undoubtedly, we'd find some other reason or cause to kill each other over within a short period of time.

19-Mar-2014 22:53 PM

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Nitya

In reply to #39 by 1Mantraman:

simple question? not so.to see the Devine light takes years of practice, except for those born already connected, or some way there. We sit on the side lines waiting for others to become enlightened, literally, so that we all of humanity may continue with the given tasks. No one to go hungry. suffic...

Believers have had ample opportunity to achieve their supposedly altruistic goals. What do they have to show for all this well intended belief? Conflict, torture, punishment for thought crimes! The history is not good and I suggest you look at it, though I suspect you have some simplistic retort waiting to be expressed.

20-Mar-2014 00:30 AM

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RDfan

There would be rape, pillaging, war, licentiousness, robbery, murder, usury, theft and inequity. Oh, wait...

20-Mar-2014 00:46 AM

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Ergewirtz

Short of the sudden extinction of humans it is not possible for men and women to give up religion in the blink of an eye. Even Stone Age tribes and likely caveman tribes had religion in some form or another, as evidenced by the fact that they buried the dead. It would seem that religion has been a part of human existence since the beginning of human existence.

20-Mar-2014 01:11 AM

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Light Wave

People would find themselves with a lot more free time but perhaps some obssesive compulsive repetative behaviour issues to fill their void, however they would probably have spare money to donate to 'worthy' causes.....they may also realise that humans have always had the power within them that they attribute to gods....people might also begin to pay attention to the real things that we all need to do to work together on important world issues and finally if religious belief disappeared overnight people would have no excuse but to look in the mirror

20-Mar-2014 02:29 AM

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truthcounts

I am sad to say it would be replaced with something perhaps not any better. There is a cause for religion..much of which ironically resides in human evolution..you don't not eliminate the ailment by just eliminating the symptom...we are a flawed species...triabalism, insecurity, intellectual laziness, desire for fairness where it can not exist...many people have a need that the truth does not comfort..

20-Mar-2014 03:11 AM

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emujoe

I had a nightmare some months back; an alien spaceship landed on planet earth and the occupants were Muslim. More likely is that when we officially make contact with occupants from other planets or places, they will have gotten over the "God" compulsion and tell us what many of us already know.

If religion ended overnight, many millions of people would be in a state of anomie ... total confusion. However, as days passed, they would probably begin dreaming up new creation scenarios to supercede the myths that have consumed us for millenia. It would be up to those of us who are atheists to show them that the world would progress much better without belief in supernatural beings and events.

20-Mar-2014 04:55 AM

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catphil

" religious belief completely stop overnight" ?

This is most improbable

If this were to occur, what would happen immediately afterwards would depend on what extraordinary set of events would have caused this complete and instantaneous "stoppage".

For the purposes of responding to this "competition", I am assuming that the cause is that our planet is hit by an enormous asteroid, destroying all human or animal life. So this is what would happen.

Under the less unrealistic hypothesis of a gradual phasing out of religious belief (evolution, you may have heard!), some other forms of associative/herding institutions , based on the existing varieties, are likely to develop around themes or interests. Some of them may be offshoots of old religions ( e.g. present day Quakers -specially in Europe- can hardly qualify as a religion), and other secular ones might have quasi-religious characteristics ( sports teams fan clubs etc...)

20-Mar-2014 07:18 AM

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CdnMacAtheist

Since indoctrination, memetic repetition, habituation, need for direction & submission to authority are so deeply inculcated, most people's brain functions would be quite disordered & unable to operate on a self-sustaining level, so there would be a lot of pretty useless folk hanging around doing nothing productive, waiting to be told what to think & do.... Mac.

20-Mar-2014 07:52 AM

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ridelo

What if we all became Mr. Spock overnight?

20-Mar-2014 13:30 PM

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Bob Springsteen

Has anyone thought about the possibility that nuclear proliferation may mean no more world due to religion? Can you imagine the world if a rogue Islamist state obtains nuclear weaponry? Islamic clerics eager to do God's work by killing infidels and earning themselves a life of eternal bliss in paradise. Sam Harris believes to ensure our survival it may take a nuclear first strike of our own (The End of Faith, Page 129)............Meanwhile, the centrifuges in Iran continue to spin?

20-Mar-2014 16:51 PM

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humanmusic

If religious belief were to completely stop overnight, 6 billion (or so) people on this planet would suddenly have a reason to live instead of a reason to die.

20-Mar-2014 17:10 PM

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PabloJ

I remember the day peace broke out as though it were yesterday. The Taliban mullahs and fighters couldn't remember why they were doing what they had been for so long and decided to all go home and back to work or farming or whatever they did 'before'. A Palestinian asked an Israeli why there were fences up and buildings being erected where his village had been; and the Israeli asked the Palestinian why his people were throwing stones at jews, but neither of them could remember what a jew was or why the houses were being built as they were. So both sat down and had a cup of coffee and talked about their families. In Ireland some men with a bomb in their car couldn't remember why it was there, so they called the police to defuse it. In the USA a significant number of television channels found they had nothing to transmit so they put some cartoons on and the audience decided they liked this better than what was shown before, even though they couldn't actually remember what that was. And many places around the world that had been restrictive and had kept women down and hurt them, suddenly saw no reason for this. And people were released from servitude to false idols and evil people all over the world. And the sun rose on the first dawn of the new age of enlightenment for the whole of humanity. How do I know this? Well of course it was me who caused this to happen. No I won't tell you how I did it in case someone reverses it. What's that? I must be some kind of a god? What is one of those now, I really don't recall. Oh you don't either? Well that must be a good thing. Let's get on with our lives along with the rest of humanity.

20-Mar-2014 17:43 PM

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MichaelKellar023

It would probably depend upon whether this includes having the memory and records of various religions disappearing as well. If we were to wake up with a Blank Slate as far as religious concepts were concerned, I believe we would do as we have always done: look at the world around us and try and make sense of it. Try and figure out what works and what does not. (In primitive times it was difficult to draw accurate conclusions about the phenomena around us.) But, now, in looking at the world, we would easily conclude that science works. Medicine works. Physics works. And so on. In rethinking the world in contemporary times, I am sure that many wrong conclusions would still be reached, but at least we would finally have completely emerged from the Dark Ages.

20-Mar-2014 18:33 PM

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Megagertz

Not sure I can wrap my head around this question -- it depends on what we mean by religious belief and what replaces it. My suspicion is that humans have in fact evolved to leap to conclusions on little evidence, since this would tend to maximize probability of survival when presented with impending doom, and then further build on that (assuming it was "successful") in later situations as fallout out from pattern matching (another evolved and useful characteristic). It's certainly an unfortunate thing when a lucky guess turns into a superstition, which turns into a rite, and then a superstition, dogma, and finally a cultural requirement. But at what point does it become "religion?"

In one sense, if religion were to disappear overnight, people would stop being who they are, and the mechanism by which they make decisions (including fast, critical decisions) would need to be filled by something else. If the question is "What if the enforced cultural requirements of making decisions based on dogma and misunderstood circumstances were to disappear overnight," that'd a good start in theory -- but it implies changing people, not buildings or books or whatever -- and so the questions really it boils down to "what if those people disappeared and were replaced by people looking exactly like them who thought more like us?" Personally losing that sort of religion is a more gradual process, as well I know... if it was instantaneous, then is just a discontinuity, and we're talking about two different people.

21-Mar-2014 00:10 AM

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Ergewirtz

Religion is a kind of narcotic (with the same feel good effect). People cannot be expected to go cold turkey.

It also produces the same high as narcotics. Its serves as an escape mechanism, it makes otherwise unhappy people feel good and it is addictive in the community it provides for the lonely and lacking confidence.

I fear that the sudden loss of religion would have a catastrophic effect for those who are monotheistic. By catastrophic results this means mass suicides and huge depression (that is if the question means that people will remember it. If not then I see no reason the world would not continue as a better, happier place with far greater intellectual curiosity.) If religion was remembered and suddenly stopped, I also feel it take its toll on every facet of human existence. Consider all the art and music created in the name of god.

I believe religion should be done away with but for true believers it needs to be a gradual process.

I honestly do not know enough about Hinduism to speak intelligently about it. As I am assuming that religion means the worship of a supernatural entity that plays a role in the day to day lives of humankind, I assume Buddhists would be fine.

21-Mar-2014 01:50 AM

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rjohn19

Emerson wrote in "Self Reliance" that a man was weaker for every recruit to his banner. I'd add- and weaker still for every banner to which he gets recruited. For the most part, people are weak and need to tribe-up so the loss of faith would create a massive gap in self-identity.

It would have to be replaced by new shared beliefs that permitted the us vs. them bonding or a deepening in the those other beliefs currently held.

Nationalism, party politics and in the US, gun nuts would raise existing conflicts to whole new levels. And I hesitate to speculate about about soccer riots.

21-Mar-2014 05:01 AM

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catphil

In reply to #51 by Bob Springsteen: ..".the possibility that nuclear proliferation may mean no more world due to religion .... if a rogue Islamist state obtains nuclear weaponry..Islamic clerics eager to do God's work by killing infidels and earning themselves a life of eternal bliss...Meanwhile, the centrifuges in Iran continue to spin. "

I don't quite understand why you raise this-a hypothesis under extreme religious belief- when we are envisaging what would happen in a world without religion. Surely, under the worse case scenario along the lines you envisage, the rogue regime in question ( say Iran, which you point to -controversially, at a time of détente) would use its arsenal on Israel and, say, 20 cities in the West. Then it would be instantly obliterated by a massive concentrated retaliation. But 80%+ (?) of the world population will survive somehow, and there is no reason to think that religious belief "would completely stop overnight" . A less lethal scenario which you allude to is that recommended by Sam Harris of a nuclear preemptive strike option on the rogue suicidal Islamic state possessing nuclear weapons and long range delivery vehicles, where only/mostly that state will be obliterated: This is not the place here to comment on Harris' preemptive recommendation , but surely it would not have much negative impact on religious belief -still less obliterate it.

21-Mar-2014 08:07 AM

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Toobroketoretire

The owners of tall buildings wouldn't have to pay for insurance any more to cover their buildings being hit by airplanes

21-Mar-2014 10:34 AM

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Toobroketoretire

People would suddenly have an interest in science? No, I'm sure the bible thumpers would find something else to captivate their imaginations like renewed interest in Peter Pan or The Tooth Fairy instead of living in Never-Never Land upon their deaths...................

21-Mar-2014 10:40 AM

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Toobroketoretire

After doing some further thinking about the question I have come to the conclusion it's a silly question that doesn't deserve an answer because mankind has always dreamed up some kind of afterlife and will continue to do so forever and ever. People want to have something to believe in and that will never change.

21-Mar-2014 10:51 AM

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mmurray

In reply to #61 by Toobroketoretire:

That may be but religion is dying in a lot of societies already. No reason that won't continue. Maybe there will be people who still keep a vague thought tucked away that life has a purpose or there must be something after death or ... But that doesn't constitute a religion.

Michael

21-Mar-2014 11:13 AM

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mmurray

Surely in a world without religion there will be no hell below us and above us only sky. I'm starting to doubt the living life in peace though.

Michael

21-Mar-2014 11:15 AM

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aldous

In reply to #51 by Bob Springsteen:

Has anyone thought about the possibility that nuclear proliferation may mean no more world due to religion?

We can look at recent history to see a situation where a nuclear catastrophe was quite possible because of opposing political ideologies. Fortunately, the leaders of the Soviet Union were rational enough to give up communism when they decided that the experiment had failed. The potential for destruction has, however, not greatly altered. The implementation of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty is urgent. Disarmament by the existing nuclear powers is the most important provision of the treaty but doesn't seem likely.

21-Mar-2014 13:39 PM

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catphil

In reply to #64 by aldous:

.."a nuclear catastrophe was quite possible because of opposing political ideologies. Fortunately, the leaders of the Soviet Union were rational enough.... The potential for destruction.. not greatly altered. The implementation of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty is urgent. Disarmament by the existing nuclear powers is the most important provision of the treaty ..."

I don't want to substitute for the moderator, but how does these comments -irrespective of their merits-relate to the subject " What would happen if religious belief were to completely stop overnight"? Maybe I am missing something?

21-Mar-2014 14:14 PM

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Toobroketoretire

In reply to #3 by Bob Springsteen:

I'd hate to see the end of religion, because I love arguing with believers too much.

It's interesting to see how fast bible thumpers will say "oh, you are interested in science, huh?" Then they'll say "the scientists are just a bunch of ignorant fools who don't know the truth about how we got here".

NOT by answering their arguments.
NOT by telling them why they are wrong.
NOT by analyzing their opinion and their own arguments.
NOT by challenging the intellectual of their "opponents" by posing questions.

But by attacking them personally!
By attacking straw-men arguments! (surprise surprise! not all clerics are child molesters!)

Christians are just "stupid", "saying nonsense", "raping children" et cetera.

Christians are just... sick and need a... cure (!) as the T-shirt of Dawkins tells us. [source]

Dogmatism in its best form.
The "opponent" is sick - how can you ever reason with him?
We (atheists) know the truth!
We (atheists) have the keys to Logic!
(no, it does not matter that our views are far more illogical - see here and here to begin with)

When the arguments of your "opponent" (I do not see them as opponents, but they certainly do) are diminished to personal attacks and insults, then you know you are close to the truth...

Dogmatism sometimes lurks in places tagged as "free thinking".

He who shouts more about something, is usually the one who does not respect it...

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Tuesday, March 25, 2014

Atheists as the worst dogmatists.